This is interesting...

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo) 08/21/2019 at 09:52 • Filed to: None

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Some “activists” were too busy selling Nikes to vote.

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You make less money off of voting than you do with empty performative demonstrations on national TV.  The NFL's new "wokeness" will make Jay-Z a lot of money, tho....

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 10:15

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abortion

gun control

standing for the national anthem at sporting events

that guy who is president

the border

Am I doing this right?

Future next gen S2000 owner > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 10:16

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Isn’t that typical though? Voting participation goes up with age.

It is never hypocritical to vote. It is the best way to make sure your voice is heard. Every single person needs to vote. No excuses.

fintail > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 10:18

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First one, nonvoters in swing states especially. Nonvoters in CA or WA didn’t change a thing.

Second one, he has a point, in a roundabout way. Maybe not hypocritical, but voting can be pointless in a gerrymandered archaic system. Or perhap s, a vote might not make things better, but it might make things worse. I still love the hubbub about taking a knee, too. If my early boomer USMC ‘Nam combat vet uncle has no problem with it, the typical doughy middle aged facebook/twitter crapposting whinydrone who’s never known much work or sacrifice shouldn’t either.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 10:20

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A) I thought that was already pretty well established since he won most of the swing states with less votes than Romney lost with.

B) While he has some admirable goals , that’s an unbelievably stupid thought process.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Future next gen S2000 owner 08/21/2019 at 10:21

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I vote, but I refused to make a mark at the top of the ticket for either of those assholes. If I lived in a battleground state, I’d be more conflicted about that choice.

facw > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 10:23

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It’s certainly not really new information. We know that young voters vote less than older voters, and we know that young voters are typically more liberal than older voters (which does not mean they are all liberal, or that they will stay liberal), so in a very close election, it’s not all surprising that if more had voted Hillary would have won.

Personally I think we’d be better off with Australian-style mandatory voting (I also think we’d be better of with Australia- style ranked choice voting, but that’s not really relevant to the issue of non-voting). We should also be allowing more flexible voting (at least offering early voting).

Ash78, voting early and often > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 10:28

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My “activism” in a deep red state is to just vote third party as much as possible. In Alabama, even giving 15% of the popular vote to Libertarians would still have allowed Trump to win, but would have made national news for the independent movement.

The same could apply in heavily blue states, as well. I don’t envy swing state voters...

What I like to politely ask my fellow Christians is why they didn’t vote for the Constitution Party. If you’re going to vote in line with your values, how could you choose Trump?

The most common response is that they’ve never heard of the Constitution Party, which by some polls is about on par with the Green Party -- and is the most “theocratically aligned” group out there.

Future next gen S2000 owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/21/2019 at 10:30

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Ditto. I have legitimately written myself in since I could vote. I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Future next gen S2000 owner 08/21/2019 at 10:36

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No write-ins in my state, sadly.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > fintail 08/21/2019 at 10:46

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We need to remember the presidential vote is just one box on the ballot.  There are so many more local issues and folks to vote for on the ballot that will likely be more impactful on your day to day lives.

fintail > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 08/21/2019 at 10:57

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In many areas, this can be true.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > facw 08/21/2019 at 11:00

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I have a friend who is a dual citizen of the US and Brazil, and I asked him what he thought about their mandatory system, and if it would be beneficial for the US to adopt. He thinks that it’s basically no better or worse - he said there’s a chunk of the population who do it out of a sense of civic responbility, are eager to vote, and believe it gives them a voice. He said the rest trot begrudgingly to the polls, view it as a huge inconvenience, and don’t give conscienable thought to their vote - they just pick whichever name they recognize more, whoever promised them the best free stuff, or just flip a coin.

I think mandatory voting does not automatically equal civic mindedness and therefore better election outcomes. Especially in the current system - a lack of voter education, the electoral college system, the two party primacy, and the corporate money in politics conspire to maintain the status quo and I don’t think mandatory voting would move the needle much .

facw > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/21/2019 at 11:05

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I can see that. I think one thing it would definitely help with is avoiding the right’s voter suppression tactics.

DipodomysDeserti > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 11:12

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I think he’s spot on in saying it would be hypocritical of him to vote for Trump or Clinton, considering either’s track record with black communities. We hold up voting as the most you can do as a citizen, when it fact it’s the least, and i f you vote haphazardly it can be the most destructive. The whole “just vote” mentality is the laziest of mentality.

If there’s a candid ate you believe in and who you believe can help accomplish what you want to see, then voting is a positive step (one of many), you can take to get there. Otherwise, there are many other avenues you can take in order to accomplish your goals. These other avenues require much more time and work, but are ultimately more rewarding.  

You do it through lawyering and how you raise your kids, and I do it through teaching and how I raise my kids.

I think if we all stopped looking around and pointing at what everyone else is doing, we’d be a lot hap pier and more efficient in accomplishing our goals.

We’d also have more time for motorcycles, good food and old Japanese machinery.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > facw 08/21/2019 at 11:15

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I’m a fan of ranked choice voting. This fall will be our first city elections with ranked-choice voting in place for Las Cruces.  A few other larger cities in New Mexico have also either adopted it, or are making noises to do so.  

Dakotahound > facw 08/21/2019 at 11:46

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I can agree with ranked choice voting, but not necessarily manda tory voting. A lot of people cannot even name the vice-president, or their own Senators or Representative. It amazes me how many people k now nothing about how the government works or how it is structured (ask people how a bill is passed - you will get some interesting replies) . These votes would likely be purely random.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > facw 08/21/2019 at 11:46

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I’m not sure how it would help. It seems like the main strategy/method of voter suppression is via ID laws combined with reducing services to make it possible to obtain said ID (i.e. shutting down or moving DMVs, etc.) in conjunction with more traditional methods like moving polling places, inconvenient times, etc .

In fact I think mandatory voting might exacerbate the issue because how are you going to know that everyone voted unless you can keep count? Can’t keep count if you can’t identify everyone. You continue to deny services to vulnerable populations, and now you’ve created an essentially crimnial class who not only can’t vote, but now you can punish for not voting. This contributes to an already growing problem of repressing the poor (keep heaping fines on them for not paying their fines) and potentally adding to mass incarceration.

That said, I like the spirit of what you’re saying . I think everyone should vote, but it should be because they want to, not because they are compelled to.

MrSnrub > ImmoralMinority 08/21/2019 at 12:27

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Hillary got fewer votes than Obama did in 2012, this isn’t really a surprise. The Democrats’ out of touch complacency handed the election to Trump. They long ago abandoned the working class, which has been especially hard hit in the rust belt, part of the so-called “blue wall” Hillary and the DNC took for granted. People aren’t stupid, they can see that, so they either didn’t bother voting because it wouldn’t make a difference or they voted for Trump, who at least looked like a change from the status quo, if a bad one.

The Democrats need a candidate people in the rust belt will be motivated to vote for if they want to beat Trump in 2020 . A wishy-washy centrist with a problematic history like Harris probably won’t cut it, nor will an elitist like Buttigieg. Biden seems to be pretty popular there, so he might make it, but he’s also a senescent gaffe machine. I think Sanders is still the best option . If the primaries were any indication he wouldn’t have lost those states in 2016 and he probably wouldn’t lose them in 2020, either.

As for Kaepernick: he should have voted, but when it comes to the kneeling I don’t know his true motivations and neither do you. As a white person I don’t presume to imagine his lived experience and for all I know it’s informing an earnest desire to raise awareness of a real issue. And police brutality is a real issue, especially for people of color.